The award question - View into Space nails it.

Much ado for nothing, litteraly.

I agree and I think the video covered that reality very well. My main reason for being interested in this is that I really believe AB would be a much more vibrant and active place if a few changes were made.

I think the thing I take most exception to is the use of paid or otherwise acquired data that’s not your own. I really see that as a completely different playing field. If anything cries out for a separate category, it’s that.

I can’t help but see the irony in this being posted the same day that a one-off shot from a camera / lens setup is the IotD that could of been taken by anyone (provided a meteor was coming down close by!).

Stats is not just about numbers, but what numbers you choose and how you use them. As far as I am concerned, the only one that matters in his video is the total integration time. What successful people tend to figure out is that more integration times usually equals a better image.

There is also another component that is not talked about, and that is what “era’ of the IotD system you uploaded your image in. How easy, if you want to call it that, it has been to get awards has historically varied wildly. When I was personally very active shooting from my own backyard, there was maybe only 10-15 TPN a month. That is it. Now I believe there is well over 200 a month.

There was also a time where the number of top picks in a month was in the single digits. It was getting so bad that reviewers didn’t have any images in their queue for days, and there was risk that there would be a lack of images to chose from for the IotD. Now there are around 150 top picks awarded a month.

Think of how high the competition was when there was so few awards given a month compared to now. With around 400(!!!!) awards a month between TPN’s and TP’s someone has to ask the harder question, which is, are we sure its not a skill issue? Maybe the reason people are not getting the award numbers they want is because, well, their skills are not up to the task.

This is not to take away his wider point about how astrophotography is becoming something of an arms race where you need to spend the cash on a remote rig with expensive gear. But, what I am saying is it is simply not a matter of dollars. A lack of skill is kind of the one thing people don’t like to admit, because who likes to admit that they are not that good at something?

Now, if we want to talk about competitions outside of Astrobin, that is another ballgame all together. For that, he might actually have a point. As for the IotD? I don’t think I buy his argument 100 percent. He is not wrong, but, spending money is not going to automatically equal better pictures. You still need the skills required to make use of that expensive gear.

My only homegrown top pick comes from my bortle 8/9 backyard that was a one-off shot during one night with reasonably cheap gear. So, I don’t know how to square that with the video I just watched. Something like that should be impossible or highly improbable if his thesis was true.

Tony Gondola · Jul 26, 2026, 07:28 PM

I think the thing I take most exception to is the use of paid or otherwise acquired data that’s not your own. I really see that as a completely different playing field. If anything cries out for a separate category, it’s that.

If you paid for it’s yours (at least in its use) by definition.

I figure I’ll never get anything, but I’ve reconciled myself to it. I just don’t have the budget or know how with the software to compete with most on there or the numbers knowledge that I read about so much in the forums, or the skies for that matter, but I’m okay with it. I have no delusions of grandeur as it were. I just want to get a decent image I’m happy with. A award would be nice but unless my situation changes I don’t see it happening.

I’m an amateur driving a VW on a racetrack with formula 1 racers with professional drivers. I’ll get across the finish line but against that I’ll never win.

Tony Gondola · Jul 27, 2026 at 03:29 PM

And I think that’s a problem. If you made a perfect run in that VW, the best anyone could do, you should have been recognized. Maybe a more basic question is: does the ITOD exist to promote AB or is it there to recognize, educate and encourage the members?

For me the only education I’ve gotten is the knowledge that given my current situation, knowledge and equipment I’ll never win any awards. I have over 200 photos on astrobin and since last year when I purchased my 2600 dedicated camera I’ve submitted almost every one (quitting with the last 10 or so) with none of them winning anything. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that I’m not going to win even a nomination. Be good if there was an honorable mention, but after seeing how the awards are given I do not believe I’d even get that, and to be honest I’m not sure I could do anything different outside maybe shoot a ton more hours, but even then there’s no guarantee. I have good images and I’m happy with my results now. And truly thats really all that matters, I’ve quit chasing the elusive nom.

And in a reply to a previous comment on buying images, I do not believe any image that you did not use your own equipment to acquire should be considered for any award, if that’s the case then let’s all just sell our stuff and just buy HST images. Right now I’m sweating my butt off setting up my scope anyway. Now collaborations are a different matter. As long as your equipment was in the mix. Purchase the data sets, process them, sure, but to win an award, thats just plain cheating in my opinion. I liken that to doping in sports or corking your bat, giving you an unfair advantage. Maybe create a separate category for that, but truly that’s not even fair to people who have invested massive amount of money on their rigs and only use those to image. There should be tiers anyway, but they probably feel they don’t have enough man power for that, but given my scenario with the VW, I shouldn’t have to race against professionals. And there are some pros on here. I remember a phrase at a camera shop decades ago I used to frequent. “We cant make you a professional photographer, but we can sure make you look like one”, and given some people’s equipment list there’s a lot of good looking pros on here. I know there are some that will disagree with me and that’s okay, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that’s mine and I’m sticking with it 😆

Tony Gondola · Jul 27, 2026 at 03:29 PM

If you made a perfect run in that VW, the best anyone could do, you should have been recognized. Maybe a more basic question is: does the ITOD exist to promote AB or is it there to recognize, educate and encourage the members?

I disagree. Somehow the whole idea of the IOTD recognition has been forgotten. It never started out as a participation award. The original idea was to recognize excellence in imaging. Along the way, the process gained top picks and top pick nominations along with the top award of IOTD. If the idea is to recognize excellence, that means that things like noise control, image details, color correction, star representation, background levels and overall processing skills will drive the images that get recognized. Over time, the process has become more inclusive to recognize planetary, solar, and sky-scape imaging as well as deep sky imaging. In every category, it is clearly an advantage to have good equipment, to operate in a good environment, and to have good processing skills; but, that’s generally what it takes to produce outstanding images. If I look back at my early IOTD awards, they were taken in my “local” backyard with equipment that cost a fraction of what my current gear costs. The standards have slowly crept upward since then but it is still entirely possible for backyard imagers with modest equipment to be recognized with an IOTD.

The idea that it should become a participation award based on how hard someone tries or on how well they can do from the middle of a city with a crummy telescope does little to inspire excellence, which in my view is what educates and encourages participants to get better at it. I’ve noticed that many folks look at it as an unattainable achievement but that simply isn’t true. It is only unattainable if you aren’t willing to figure out how to get good enough. Is the judging 100% uniform and correct? No it’s not but a very large percentage of the images that get recognized are very deserving of the award.

I have a very good friend who produces very nice images but none that are at a level that will ever get IOTD recognition at any level. When I gently point out obvious things that he could improve, he has no interest in what I have to say. He does it for fun and he simply does not want to stress over how to get better…and that’s fine. In my view, the IOTD process shouldn’t be producing any stress. If you love imaging, just keep doing it for fun and forget about winning anything. That’s not what it should be all about.

John

andrea tasselli · Jul 27, 2026, 01:22 PM

If you paid for it’s yours (at least in its use) by definition.

Imaging is a skill and an art and a craft. Buying the parts for a shelf at Ikea and putting them together does not make you a designer or a woodworker or a craftsman. Having designed and built some of my own furniture, I can testify to that…

The more you do to create a result, the more credit you deserve….

📷 cybertable.jpg

Tony Gondola · Jul 27, 2026 at 08:25 PM

I always hate to hear people say they have given up or will never get there or will never be good enough.

I think we actually agree Tony, but yes I will say that unless I get better equipment, or a darker sky or more training on the software I will not get any award on astrobin. It’s just not going to happen. Two of those things, darker skies and better equipment are not coming. And besides it’s not a fact of giving up, it’s coming to a realization that my ability and situation just isn’t as good as others and I will not obtain the level necessary to achieve an award. It’s not giving up it’s just understanding that it will take more time than 1) I’m willing to invest and 2) better equipment which I’m not willing to invest in either. Not everyone can get everything they want simply because they want it. Factors prohibit that from happening. One thing that will prohibit a lot that I do in just a few years will be my age. I’m still able to lift my 46lb scope onto my mount, but I’m 71 and those days are swiftly waning. I’m not complaining just stating facts of life. And truly like I said, I’ve stopped trying for an award, it’s not coming and I just accept it.

From Sasha’s 250 IOTD analysis (working from memory so some of the numbers may be off):

1) 67% from dark sites so 33% are not.

2) 22% from hardware between 5K and 15K so from modest rigs (with another large chunk going to unspecified equipment).

3) Long integration time (something we can all control).

So, there is room for those of us with without access to expensive gear and B1 skies. I would hope that the reviewers provide feedback for rejected images so we can have a clue on improvement focus area.

Anthony (Tony) Johnson · Jul 27, 2026, 11:52 PM

If there is any one thing that I’d like to see is that. There is no feedback on why your image didn’t make the grade, you just loose the badge that tells you it’s in the queue. Two of my images were, in my opinion the best I’ve done and they got rejected but I have no idea why.

Alright I will bite, what were those two images? Astrobin also has a dedicated forum to image feedback that people can use!